Visions

...the old man of Norfolk hits 50 and finally gets round to visiting the Lost Souls of the North, 36 Boys Weekends after he was first asked ;-)
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Oggie
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Re: Visions

Post by Oggie » 11 Jun 2019, 21:24

Not silent, just busy.

You have almost cracked it; so, the dwarves are forced to turn their back on water and their Gate is now fire, their House is tearing itself apart - trapped between good and evil, law and chaos...What is the final result?

Where does that leave the 4th Age?

Don’t forget that whether an Age is +’ve or -‘ve depends on the totality of key events and the composition/ total alignment structure of the Blooms...

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Oggie
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Re: Visions

Post by Oggie » 12 Jun 2019, 06:25

Oh yes, have a look back at alignments:
You have LG, CN and NE in the First Age...
What alignment does Yarl turn to? (Sylph belonging to Loki).
Putting this alignment in the 2nd Age imbalances the whole thing, as there can only be 1 of each alignment...
It creates a need to respond and a competition amongst the ‘concerned’ Deities to stabilise the Prime.
For some of the Norse this is about Ragnarok as you know, what’s it about for the other Pantheons?

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ianlogic
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Re: Visions

Post by ianlogic » 12 Jun 2019, 09:26

Oggie

Like a cold drink on a sore tooth - this is making my head hurt but I keep going back for more... :?

I had always thought that Yarl would have become Neutral Evil(?) but ruled it out because of 2 blooms with the same alignment - based on your comment above, I would go back to that first assumption. Loki's sylph should be Chaotic Evil but you alluded to the fact that Yarl isn't fully corrupted - hence NE.

The result of the Dwarves of Dor being split between Law/Chaos, Good/Evil is that the house is literally torn apart, this is most visible with the move from East to West at the end of the 3rd Age. They effectively abandon their ancestral home and move to Keffendir/Dragorald for a fresh start that goes drastically wrong. They are still influenced by the shard and go on to unearth a connection to Incharan - that suggests a natural gate in Keffendir? This is also the point at which the Lost Souls of the North split off completely, in disgust at the actions of the rest of their house. The Lost Souls also change mythos, discovering the Greek gods via the gnomes/Orodruin's folk. At this point, the House of Dor has ceased to exist in any meaningful sense.

My assumption was that the first stabilising action was the introduction of a balancing Dwarf bloom in the 3rd Age followed by a Lawful but Evil bloom in the 4th Age. Based on some of the visions, the 4th Age is when the Duergar really emerge and I think they are the new bloom in that age, even though the Gnopmes history suggests no meaningful gap between creation of Derro and Duergar blooms.

In terms of the pantheons:

The Egyptians are largely withdrawn from the Prime following their 1st Age strife (Osiris dead, Isis grief-stricken, Anubis sulking). However, Set appears to still have a role and he is the only Evil Egyptian God, unlike Anubis who was the only non-Evil lord of the underworld.

The Greeks are all about the conflict between parents and children and games played between the gods. Zeus wants to protect his position so he isn't usurped by his children while playing games with Hades and, it seems, Hephaestus. Athena seems to want to do the 'right thing' and remove chaotic influence from the Prime; this makes her the only greek god we would regard as sharing our goals.

The Oriental mythos hasn't really featured much but the 4th Age is when I would expect it to peak, if ever. That said, I don't know what their motivations are at all!

The 'real' action though seems to lie in the Underworld, where gods of multiple pantheons are competing for relative power by gaining the greatest flow of souls - a contest that Hel appears to be winning. Anubis showed them how much effect can be created by being the dominant force in the underworld. Hades wants the power and the freedom to operate, not least of all against Zeus. Hel is in league with Loki and wants to 'win' the war between Asgard and Niflheim. The demons want to destroy each other, gain power and bring chaos for its own sake.

'...The Deities of the Underworld wish to understand more of the Prime...'

'...Of course, while they deliver souls to the Lords of the Underworld, our intentions are aligned. It is not control of the Prime that the Deities seek, only greater dominion over and within their own Pantheons...'

'...It was also rumoured that Yagrik and Yarl had made bargains with the deities of the underworld that all souls sent to them would never be able to return to the Prime or Ascend to divinity, via their Gates without permission. Whilst the Gate at Maedus was contested and the other in the Vikriain turned by the Drow, the deities of the underworld rejoiced in this bargain – able keep powerful beings, regardless of alignment, to use them for their own ends. Anubis himself, keeper of the path, saw no reason to stop the bargain. Set, Hades and Hel revelled in the support that the Gnomes were offering – barring the path from the Underworld to the Prime, unless it was on their terms. No longer would the father figures of their Pantheons be able to establish links with the Prime, without their knowledge. In return, Yagrik was granted extreme longevity by Anubis (who could only see the righteousness of his actions). Hades, used Locklastar to ensure safe passage of Persephone, previously controlled by the Efferendil elves. Hel offered armies in support of Yagrik and Yarl’s alliances – including the first Gith Army, later given to Iki. The Gods – most likely Set and Hades - directed the ancient sylph to produce Flore, to establish symbiotic relationships, to support both the gnomes of Locklastar and the dwarves of Yarlug...'


The great advantage of the Norse mythos (Baldir would say!) is that worshipping the good Norse gods is one of the very few options that stops souls from going to the underworld. Even if thousands of worshippers of Thor/Odin die in battle, their souls are escorted direct from the battlefield to Asgard where they become warriors of Valhalla. Whereas, worshippers of all Greek gods end up in Hades' realm regardless and all Egyptians pass through the halls of the dead to be judged, regardless of their chosen god.

Logic

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Oggie
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Re: Visions

Post by Oggie » 12 Jun 2019, 18:34

Sorry, I meant it took Yarl a while to succumb to Loki and transition fully but he moved entirely to CE (if that makes sense).

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ianlogic
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Re: Visions

Post by ianlogic » 12 Jun 2019, 21:39

Really - CE - so literally the alignment that I said first, 10 posts earlier! :evil: no wonder I get confused :shock: :lol:

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Oggie
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Re: Visions

Post by Oggie » 13 Jun 2019, 05:20

Just my way of keeping you interested... :lol:

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ianlogic
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Re: Visions

Post by ianlogic » 13 Jun 2019, 08:46

Oggie

I think the 4th Age is about the point where things get really complicated just as our available references get a little thin and unreliable. Its almost as though the world was in turmoil in the 4th Age, races split, mass migration, IDPs, chaos everywhere... :shock:

We may need to pick this up over a beer or a coffee sometime so we can have a more interactive discussion...

Logic

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Re: Visions

Post by ianlogic » 13 Jun 2019, 13:28

Guys

Control of access to/from the Underworld is obviously important in this campaign.

Anubis and Set between them are lords of the Egyptian Underworld, which is accessed via the Astral Gate location at LockLastar, controlled by the Duergar, who are loyal to Anubis. It can also be accessed via the old Egyptian 'Pylons', such as the Pikes of Annur

Hades controlled access via the Gate in Yarlug and the power of the Derro - except the gate has been switched back to the Efferendil. So has Hades now lost some influence/control?

The Drow control the gate to Niflheim for Hel but I'm not sure where that manifests on the Prime - if at all. I think their link may be via the Plane of Negativity, flowing through each of the negative para-elementals (Ash, Salt, Vacuum, and Dust - each of which has a Drow fortress). That would presumably require an Ethereal connection to the Prime, the natural gate for which is in Olga I think? Otherwise, they may be relying on Loki's ages-old deal with the Plane of Fire to provide passage between the Underworld and the Prime.

So what...? If we can reduce the ease with which the gods of the underworld can access the Prime then we would significantly weaken them...

Logic

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